Porn Valley- I ask Tom Zupko what’s with the hair. For now Zupko looks like Max Von Sydow playing Jesus Christ- the hair’s halfway between short and long- way too long for corporate and way too short for preaching sermons and working miracles. Zupko, who generally wears his hair Cousin It style, explains why this is. He had a makeup artist give him dreadlocks for the AEE show and the only way they could untangle the mess afterwards was by cutting the whole bramble off.

I remember someone telling me that they were so put off by the “satanic vibe” Zupko threw off with this look that they were afraid to approach the Extreme booth. Which is kind of funny because Zupko, for all his outlandish sorcery on the porn screen, is the gentlest of souls. Maybe even more gentle now that someone took the bottle out of his hands.

The joke used to be that Zupko, who once featured toned, rock star muscles and a six pack, drank the six pack when no one was looking.

Zupko had gone on the wagon prior to AEE and admits he fell off big time during that show. Now he’s back on it and goes to meetings. Lots of meetings.

He’s close to 50 days sober this time around and says once he reaches three months he’ll attack his next vice- cigarettes. We talk about a lot of things: the launch of ThomasZupko.com, how he came back to Extreme after directing movies for Elegant Angel and Hustler. His plans to make a prequel to Days of Whore. What it’s like to come off of 20 years of non-stop boozing and how he and Rob Black co-exist, now, after their respective egos clashed on the battlefield, prompting Zupko to leave Extreme in the first place.

Zupko’s latest project for Extreme is called Ass Squirt described as “old school, new school” based around “Catholic girls, ass juice, and Big Wet Asses-esque anal sex.”

“It’s like the old Extreme movies I did,” he says. “Somewhat controversial, really, really aggressive hardcore sex, a lot of the kooky stuff and all the cerebral religious stuff I used to do. And the sex is similar to the series I did, Big Wet Asses. So you have real, gonzo sex with the cool drapery of the old school stuff which I liked very much. It’s getting a pretty good buzz right now.”

Zupko particularly lends applause to Smiley Johnson who did the DVD authoring.

“It’s great and there’s all types of bonus things that we’ve done that you don’t see on adult DVDs,” says Zupko. When Zupko uses the term old school, I suggest that he’s never really departed from the style that brought him to the school dance.

“When I shot for Elegant it was basically straight forward gonzo,” he tells me. “Big Wet Asses was pretty much like that. I was very proud of that because a lot of people were saying- Zupko- he’s not going to be able to do gonzo, especially if he doesn’t have a clown head popping up in the middle of each scene! Big Wet Asses was about what makes me jerk off. What do I want to stroke my dick to? It was that- these big asses and anal sex where every position is almost a scene unto itself. You almost have, like 20 movies in one. It was the big ass covered in oil. When you see the roundness of the cheek, it’s like heaven.”

“So it was a great challenge to create this series which had phenomenal sales and won AVN awards for best anal-themed series.”

But Zupko has to laugh at the same time, noting how imitation, especially in the adult industry, is the biggest form of flattery and ripoff. Those who laughed are now tediously copying the same structure Zupko brought to Big Wet Asses.

“Now I see every company has a big wet ass line,” he chuckles. “Whether it’s big wet white butts or juicy asses. People are like vultures. No one can be original. They see an idea, they copy it. They imitate it almost down to the very detail which is amazing. Yet it’s frustrating at the same time because everyone makes money off of your ideas but yourself. Then I say, hey, they’re the smart ones.”

So, basically copying from himself, Zupko will continue with another line at Extreme titled Bigger, Wetter Asses.

“I’ll just take that concept to another level,” he says. He begins shooting in about two weeks and is casting for it as we speak.

“I’m trying to do two things in it and one is kind of difficult,” he concedes. “It’s to get these girls with big, gorgeous asses doing anal for the first time. So it’s five girls doing their first anal scene. And it’s also girls you’ve never seen. Beyond that I have some other ideas to make it bigger, erotic and sexier.” Even Zupko admits this is a tall order.

On his original departure from Extreme, Zupko talks about growing and evolving.

“And going through what I’m doing now- not drinking- I’m learning a lot,” he observes. “You have to try and change for the better but we all make mistakes. Your growth is to be aware of your mistakes and try to correct them. I left for various reasons that I won’t go into, but being back here now, one thing about Rob Black is that his heart has always been good. He’s always treated me well, let me make my movies my way, and he never questioned who or what I was as a human being or how I directed and I appreciate that. Truth is, if it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t be sitting in this chair right now.

“The thing is he also made a lot of mistakes and has openly admitted that in letting his early success go to his head,” Zupko continues. “He learned and he’s humbled by it. When I came in here one day to get a couple of my DVDs we started talking. He admitted all the mistakes he made and was very sincere about it. He said, ‘I fucked up’ and to me that was the most amazing thing. Most people in this business will never truly admit to that.

“After being back at Extreme almost eight months I can truly say that Rob has changed and I respect that. The person that he always was inside is coming out more and more. And that’s what I’m trying to do as well in my life. I’ve done a lot of things I regret and were solely based on me. And I’m trying to grow. I guess the reasons why I left were due to his ego and my ego, if you want to get to the core of it. The people we have always been is now able to come out more and more.”

Zupko also suspects that he probably wouldn’t have but the breaks on his own life had he been with another company.

“And it’s ironic because people will say Extreme Associates is the place you’d drink more and more!” Zupko laughs. “There’s a great thing about being here that’s very consistent. There are no surprises like going into Rob’s office and hearing someone tell you, hey kid, stay with me and do this and you’ll own half the company. And the next day you’d be called a punk and told you’re drinking too much while there’s a fifth of Vodka behind your boss’ desk.”

Zupko says now that the stress of all that has been removed, he’s in a comfort zone that allows him to focus on his sobriety. I ask Zupko if one day he just heard a voice from the sky telling him to cut the booze out. He says, no, it didn’t exactly work that way.

“I don’t like being preached to,” he says. “Because most of ther people who preach are the biggest hypocrites. I’ve learned that at every level in life. I drank for 20 odd years and, honestly to say, it helped me a lot. It gave me the self-confidence. It gave me the courage because I am very insecure. As you know, I’m probably one of the most anti-social people you’ll ever meet. Most people would see me on sets or at a party and think Zupko’s the life of the party. But in reality you know I’m not. I don’t leave my apartment. I come to work and go home. But alcohol served me well. It created Thomas Zupko. Everything was through that. But what happened after a period of time, it started catching up to me physically, emotionally and mentally.

“I also harbored a lot of resentments from one of the companies I worked for,” he goes on to say. “I was even getting angry at Rob for which I had no reason; I was drinking and not dealing with those things. And Rob had been phenomenal for those first couple of months in dealing with the resentments I had. Then this resentment started affecting my job whereas before with my drinking I’d be up all day, and be the last one to leave. I said I have to stop.”

With all the years of drinking, Zupko swears he never had a hangover but once he went cold turkey he went through withdrawal.

“It was hell- it was sweat, convulsions,” Zupko says. “The first three days are the worst. Alcohol withdrawal for some people is worse than heroin withdrawal in that some people are hospitalized and tied down. I was doing great on my own and thought I could do it but a friend of mine who works here and is my sponsor was shaking his head. He said you’ll need more than that. And since then I’ve been going to a program. It’s not only staying sober but a complete life change. Because it is a disease.

“I compare it to this- it’s like a woman who you were married to for 20 years, who you thought was responsible for your success, and if it wasn’t for her, you wouldn’t be successful. Then one day you wake up. She left the house- your bank account is drained and she took off with your best friend.

“That’s kind of what alcohol did to me. It was stealing from you the whole time. I screwed up a lot of my life maybe not so much professionally- because I was this tortured artist making my legacy. But at the same time I took money out of my own pocket and put it into my movies. I’d go over budget and put in my own money. I wouldn’t do that today. But these are the things you learn.”

Now without the booze, Zupko is learning that he can direct and make movies better by eliminating the drama and the highs and lows.

Zupko will also tell you that a lot of the earlier movies he did for Extreme were based on anger.

“Again those highs and lows- you love to death or hate to death,” he explains. “You don’t have that middle. But I realize you even evolve with your profession and change.” If he were to pick his favorite movies from that time period Zupko would go with In Days of Whore, The Big Wet Asses Series, Opera, Shades of Hades, The Attic and Brett Rockman, MD.

“Each one of those in their way to me means something,” he says. “Opera is me- I’m Puccini although with alcohol, not heroin.”

On the launch of ThomasZupko.com which happens in the next few weeks, he compares it to the presidential museum.

“It’s going to have everything I’ve done; it’s going to have every document plus every week you’ll see the first scene of new series on there. And ExtremeAssociates.com is being revamped and re-launched. That will be the end of this month. It’ll be kind of the way it was in the old days. No longer attacking people in the industry like we used to but attacking those who are against us. And still be kooky with all the crazy stuff we sued to do.

“We’ve got a lot of new projects that will be announced,” he adds. “But I’m very glad to be back. I feel this is home. I’m very honored to be working for Rob. And the industry does owe him. Despite what you might think of the content of the product, he has really fought the fight, despite what you might think of the content. He’s one of the few people who allows you to be yourself and I respect and admire that very much.”

“Does the possible consequences of his fight with the government weigh on you personally?” Zupko is asked.

“Rob said to me, ‘I can’t worry about it,'” Zupko replies. ‘Do I worry? Of course. You’d be lying.’

“But he goes, ‘I’ve made a commitment to what I do. I believe in it. The way you have to approach it is one day at a time. At the end of the day I get home- I got through another day. The bills are paid. We’re still here and we’re still alive.’

“That’s the way you have to look at it,” says Zupko. “You just got to look at the now. If you miss today, there is no tomorrow.”

Addressing his time at Hustler, Zupko says he respects Larry Flynt, though they never actually met.

“The buzz when you went over there was the mad man was going up against Larry. Who would win in the battle of compromise?”

“Ultimately no one put a gun to my had to be there,” states Zupko. “LFP was very excited about my being there. And I was very honored as well. When I left Elegant I had many options of the companies I could go to. But I went to LFP because Kat Slater was in charge. I liked her attitude. I liked her enthusiasm. And, wow, to be at LFP was really an exciting thing. But to put it in a nutshell, Mr. Flynt had already fought his wars and he didn’t want to fight any more- meaning watch what you do. He didn’t want to go through another obscenity fight.”

The first movie Zupko did for the company was titled Butt Blasted. It did very well and Zupko was told it was the second best commercial title ever to come out for VCA. Then Zupko would start shooting material that slipped through the QC cracks and he was called on it.

“There’d be couriers to my set and there’d always be content changes,” he notes. “My stuff was being chopped up to bits and there was this battle I was going through with the anger. Without finding common ground, the subsequent movies suffered because of that. They suffered sales-wise and review-wise. When I had the vision it was chopped up by the legal dept., or it was me being confused as to really how to do it. I would go through the gamut of emotions on the set from fuck it, I’ll do it my way or making it difficult for myself. But I really have no regrets, and there’s a lot of good people there. It just wasn’t the place for me. It wasn’t a compatible situation- I wasn’t the director or the personality best suited for what they were doing.”

With all the craziness he’s brought to porn, Zupko, amusingly, finds it hard remembering his first sexual experience. He strains to remember it, noting that it was a summer job where he worked for his stepfather. Zupko was 19.

“I got to go way back to the archives,” he laughs. “It was in New York. I was a supervisor. We were doing government contracts and there was this older woman. She was 38. She wasn’t bad for 38. After that I had a run of some girls. She was working there with other girls- she was white and there were a bunch of black girls. I ended up screwing them, too. I was shy at the time and I think I overheard her say he’s kind of cute. If I remember it correctly, it was a lunch break and we went to a hotel. It was strange. To be completely honest, I remember this part of it- I couldn’t do it. And she was, was it me? Usually your first one you pop right away.”

I ask Zupko if his overboard scenes tend to compensate for things he missed along the way in life.

“The thing is I’ve done almost everything, sexually, you could imagine,” Zupko says. “But having said that, I’m not into crazy, sexual things. But I’ve fucked quite a few girls- mostly girls from the adult entertainment industry from the time I was managing strip clubs to being a director. If I had to go to a club to pick up a girl, I wouldn’t know how to do it. I’m so used to sex being so free and easy.

But I’ve never wanted to do the crazy things you see on camera. It’s funny. My sex life is very conventional. People looking at my movies would think I’m the biggest misogynist on the planet. I’m the furthest thing from it. I love women to death. And girls who know me will tell you that. I’m completely opposite of that.”

At the same time Zupko will tell you, though he’s fucked a lot of women, he’s never had a serious long term relationship.

“I had one for a year and it fell apart,” he offers. “I guess I don’t know how to truly love. My form of love is always looking for the father figure and the mother I’ve never had. That’s what I’m dealing with, now. My movies became aggressive with me dealing with issues of never being loved. It wasn’t about being laid. being laid is easy. It’s never being loved. I’ve never been able to have normal relationships at any level with people. I’m talking across the board- and that’s something I’m dealing with now. And because of that, a lot of people have taken advantage of that. Hey, that’s smart- more power to them.”

But when it comes to asses, what you see on camera is true Zupko. He’s always been a shit crack man.

“There’s something about a big round ass- as you know- it’s almost like looking into the face of God,” he laughs. “It is. It’s the most perfect thing. I like the big round ass. I even like the big sloppy asses.”

“That’s God with a hangover,” I tell Zupko.